The Sound of Forehands Clapping

This is for those who know me and are curious who this Mark is that I am doing the RBMW series with. I met Mark by unwisely and, yes, publicly critiquing one of his reviews at Discerning Reader. In retrospect I’ll just say this: It was worth every key press. :D

11:59 PM mtubbs: Interesting, yes. Nice bit of trivia.

12:00 AM Still interested in 1 John 1:21 or have you moved on?

2:21, I mean

12:05 AM me: yes still interested

mtubbs: Got five minutes? Not going to disappear on me? :)

me: nope :)

lay it on me

12:06 AM mtubbs: Okay. First, why so interested in 1 John 2:21? Just interested…

Besides the fact that it’s the Word of God!

me: I can only speculate that my interest in preaching in general is because I am called to it.

12:07 AM mtubbs: Wow. Heavy :)

me: A speculation that is in line with the Word is enough for me to move forward though. ;)

mtubbs: Good. Glad you’re not waiting for a liver shiver to move you in the right direction.

12:08 AM me: (P.S. I am interested in getting that knowing the will of God book that DR reviewed. Sounds rad)

LOL

clearly we both read it

mtubbs: Buy it with your Monergism $$!

me: I should :)

12:09 AM mtubbs: Alrighty. Do you know what the context of 1 John is generally?

me: uhm, gnosticism?

mtubbs: Yep. The first instance of it, before it really flourished in the 2nd century

me: (that’s what I always guess for “What was the controversey in such and such) :D

12:10 AM mtubbs: Hence 2:26 – “I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.”

So it’s a specific target.

If you ripped the verse out of its context, as some preachers do, and as even some translations, do, you get “you know all things.”

me: “know” seems like a popular word in 1 john

mtubbs: Yikes – we don’t know all things!

12:11 AM me: following

mtubbs: Yep. But the Greek word for “know” in this context is oida, which signals that it’s knowledge they already possess

12:12 AM IOW, the apostolic testimony, the good deposit.

me: that’s what I had assumed.

12:13 AM mtubbs: Right. And the anointing of verse 20 refers to the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, so it is a supernaturally-imparted knowledge.

12:14 AM This has so much impact on us 21st century believers, because we need to be careful not to add anything (doctrinally) to the substance of the apostolic teaching.

me: Is there true knowledge that isn’t imparted by the Spirit…? :)

12:15 AM mtubbs: :)

me: hm, I get you, but I feel like there’s a deeper level where I don’t. go on

mtubbs: Some Presbyterians argue that faith is at root (and is mostly) intellectual assensus. Mental assent.

12:16 AM Well, I don’t know about deeper, but there are some great themes at work here:

12:17 AM Such as Christ (the Word, the Spirit of Christ, as Paul calls Him) being the only mediator between God and man; we don’t need mediating teachers to bring us “inside knowledge”

Our knowledge is accurate and true, although not complete, obviously

me: ok

let me ask this

12:18 AM mtubbs: Sure, then I’ll tell you something interesting and scary about how John deploys the word “antichrist”

me: If I gain an audience with unbelievers and preach to them I am, in part, going to be presenting knowledge that is unknown to them.

If I preach to believers I have no new knowledge to present to them, SO what _am I doing_?

12:19 AM mtubbs: You’re still preaching, because John isn’t denying the proper place of teachers.

12:20 AM Rather, he’s denying the place of mediating teachers who act as indirect conduits of special knowledge

me: I dig, but maybe away from Johns main point: I know it’s still preaching, but if I am not conveying knowledge via my preaching then what am I doing?

Or put another way, What is the aim of preaching?

mtubbs: As a preacher you’re meeting various levels of Christians at their levels of maturity, building their faith and equipping them for works of service.

12:21 AM me: how?

between preaching and the result you talked about. how does preaching do that?

if it’s not new knowledge, what is it?

12:22 AM mtubbs: How? By magnifying Christ – making Him more glorious in the hearts and eyes of the hearers

It’s the increase of affections for God through the Holy Spirit

me: I like it :)

mtubbs: I peter 1:12

the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven,

12:23 AM me: When I was reading that part of 1 John it was also reminding me of a paper by Keller: The Centrality of the Gospel

mtubbs: Oh, you were reading 1 John in your devotions?

me: with my daughter

praise God :)

mtubbs: Cool. :)

How old is she/

12:24 AM me: In that paper (which you should read) Keller says the Gospel is not the ABC’s of the faith, but the A-Z. Not new knowledge, but new embracing of it.

7

mtubbs: Absolutely. Sounds like C.J. in Living the Cross-Centered LIfe

me: Is that in line with what your saying?

12:25 AM mtubbs: Yes, substantively it is.

But new mental knowledge is part of it too

me: substantively you say… :D

How about instead of “knowledge” we say “mind formation” ;)

mtubbs: Take the atonement, for example. How many vantage points are there from which to appreciate and wonder at that act of love?

12:26 AM me: the mind of Christ….

mtubbs: Hey, I’m not using “knowledge” like the Gnostics (gnosis), so I’m safe here! :)

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. Gal 1:8

me: I’m tempted to post this chat as a blog post!

mtubbs: Yikes :)

12:27 AM me: as an explanation of why I like Mark Tubbs :D He he!

mtubbs: Double yikes :)

me: because of Christ of course… :D

mtubbs: Of course…

1 Cor 15:11: “so we preach and so you believed.”

me: Well I should get to bed. Looking forward to that Mariners game

12:28 AM mtubbs: I love the simplicity and the cause-and-effect of that. It doesn’t have much Reformed theology in it, though :)

me: Oh but it does doesn’t it?

Work out your salvation in fear and trembling…

mtubbs: Important verse, that one, that scares lots of Reformed types.

me: Oh I love it

12:29 AM mtubbs: You know, I’ll have to go back to 1, 2, 3 John(s). Haven’t read them in a long time.

me: I’ll take any paradox in Scripture if it means it will break me, humble me, put me in a place of wonder and make me dependent on Him

AND make me work hard! :D :D

mtubbs: Paradox the way Ortlund describes it, right?!

12:30 AM me: well….

ok, I am out

Grace

mtubbs: Did you not read his endnotes?

For shame!

:)

Goodnight. Good chat!

12:32 AM Before I go:

By “Paradox” I do not mean a logical inconsistency or an absurdity. I mean a truth that bears an appearance of self-contradiction because it consists of two principles that seem to clash but, in reality, are mutually compatible. An illustration of a paradox would be the truth that one must lose one’s life to find it (Matthew 10:39). Indeed, true Christian living is paradoxical to the core. Cf. 2 Corinthians 6:8b-10. This should be expected of a life lived for the God “whose service is perfect freedom” (Book of Common Prayer). Cf. New Dictionary of Theology (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1988), S.V. “Paradox in Theology,” by J. I. Packer.

That’s Ortlund.

Now, goodnight.

This entry was posted on Friday, April 10th, 2009 at 12:45 am and is filed under Random Thoughts. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.