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	<title>Comments on: Headship and Equality in the Garden of Eden</title>
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	<link>http://4handsclapping.com/blog/2009/04/headship-and-equality-in-the-garden-of-eden/</link>
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		<title>By: Bina</title>
		<link>http://4handsclapping.com/blog/2009/04/headship-and-equality-in-the-garden-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-612</link>
		<dc:creator>Bina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4handsclapping.com/blog/?p=1411#comment-612</guid>
		<description>Hi there, I&#039;m a little behind on keeping up with the series, but looking forward to getting to do so soon!  

I finally posted a review of Carolyn McCulley&#039;s latest book: &quot;Radical Womanhood: Feminine Faith in a Feminist World&quot;.  Here it is:

http://abranchinthevine.blogspot.com/2009/06/review-of-radical-womanhood-feminine.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there, I&#8217;m a little behind on keeping up with the series, but looking forward to getting to do so soon!  </p>
<p>I finally posted a review of Carolyn McCulley&#8217;s latest book: &#8220;Radical Womanhood: Feminine Faith in a Feminist World&#8221;.  Here it is:</p>
<p><a href="http://abranchinthevine.blogspot.com/2009/06/review-of-radical-womanhood-feminine.html" rel="nofollow">http://abranchinthevine.blogspot.com/2009/06/review-of-radical-womanhood-feminine.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://4handsclapping.com/blog/2009/04/headship-and-equality-in-the-garden-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4handsclapping.com/blog/?p=1411#comment-581</guid>
		<description>I do hold to a complimentary view of being created in the Image of God but in that complementarity &quot;headship&quot; is not necessarily forsaken, the leadership of the man is not forsaken.  But the man acknowledges the strength of his partner and walks away from a dominating role and more of a Christ like leadership within the marriage.  Both submit to each other, both serve each other.  You will see in the relationship with man and woman reflecting God in relationship as three persons.  Which is why complementarity is important to see.  

God is neither male or female but one can see both a masculine and feminine traits within the Godhead.  

It&#039;s rather complex because I really believe there are times when the man would be smart to listen to what the woman says and also follow in a direction the woman feels strongly about.  And the woman is smart and mature when she can keep in mind to treat her husband with respect.

I think the undertone of the feminist movement is this lack of respect for men and most women in this movement do respond not only from the place of brokenness but also out of response of men abusing their role and their greater physical strength over the woman as well as the misogyny found within pornography has degraded women.  Women respond equally as bad with Misandry, a term not seen as much but refers to the hatred of men.

I&#039;ve been on both ends... misogyny and misandry, a hatred for both men and women... due to my own brokenness.  Not saying that&#039;s the case for everyone who has come from a homosexual background but I&#039;ve had to repent of both personally. 

I do believe that we need to work towards restoring the masculine in men because our culture does a great deal of harm to men not only within their own gender identity but also this has created much confusion for many about the role of men in relationship with the woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do hold to a complimentary view of being created in the Image of God but in that complementarity &#8220;headship&#8221; is not necessarily forsaken, the leadership of the man is not forsaken.  But the man acknowledges the strength of his partner and walks away from a dominating role and more of a Christ like leadership within the marriage.  Both submit to each other, both serve each other.  You will see in the relationship with man and woman reflecting God in relationship as three persons.  Which is why complementarity is important to see.  </p>
<p>God is neither male or female but one can see both a masculine and feminine traits within the Godhead.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s rather complex because I really believe there are times when the man would be smart to listen to what the woman says and also follow in a direction the woman feels strongly about.  And the woman is smart and mature when she can keep in mind to treat her husband with respect.</p>
<p>I think the undertone of the feminist movement is this lack of respect for men and most women in this movement do respond not only from the place of brokenness but also out of response of men abusing their role and their greater physical strength over the woman as well as the misogyny found within pornography has degraded women.  Women respond equally as bad with Misandry, a term not seen as much but refers to the hatred of men.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been on both ends&#8230; misogyny and misandry, a hatred for both men and women&#8230; due to my own brokenness.  Not saying that&#8217;s the case for everyone who has come from a homosexual background but I&#8217;ve had to repent of both personally. </p>
<p>I do believe that we need to work towards restoring the masculine in men because our culture does a great deal of harm to men not only within their own gender identity but also this has created much confusion for many about the role of men in relationship with the woman.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://4handsclapping.com/blog/2009/04/headship-and-equality-in-the-garden-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-580</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 00:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4handsclapping.com/blog/?p=1411#comment-580</guid>
		<description>Hi again,

Well, I&#039;d have to say that this is one of the more interesting reads I&#039;ve had in a while.  And it&#039;s actually, when I think about it, it&#039;s not leaning towards the misogyny that I find when, ironically speaking I&#039;ve read what other women within the church have had to say on this very topic.  

To some respect here we&#039;re talking about man&#039;s responsibilities.  And I would agree.  The whole question that sometimes people forget to ask, is.. &quot;Where was Adam when Eve took from the tree they were forbidden to take from?&quot; 

The answer is that he was right by her side and said nothing.  He forsake his responsibility in the garden... but she nonetheless made the choice to disobey God.  

#6 -- is mentioned about a curse.  

If we look a little bit closer to the scriptures we&#039;ll see that God actually DID NOT curse Adam and DID NOT curse Eve as so many people are misled into believing... 

Now before you stone me for heresy let me explain... 

Go back to the Genesis account at the fall of creation and see for yourself ... 

He curses the serpent and he curses the ground. 

Did he not only hand out 2 curses? 

Why then do we create a 3rd and say Adam and Eve were also cursed.  

Here&#039;s what actually happened.  When God cursed the serpent and the ground it left Adam and Eve to deal with the consequences of choices made.  And we can see that played out throughout the ages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again,</p>
<p>Well, I&#8217;d have to say that this is one of the more interesting reads I&#8217;ve had in a while.  And it&#8217;s actually, when I think about it, it&#8217;s not leaning towards the misogyny that I find when, ironically speaking I&#8217;ve read what other women within the church have had to say on this very topic.  </p>
<p>To some respect here we&#8217;re talking about man&#8217;s responsibilities.  And I would agree.  The whole question that sometimes people forget to ask, is.. &#8220;Where was Adam when Eve took from the tree they were forbidden to take from?&#8221; </p>
<p>The answer is that he was right by her side and said nothing.  He forsake his responsibility in the garden&#8230; but she nonetheless made the choice to disobey God.  </p>
<p>#6 &#8212; is mentioned about a curse.  </p>
<p>If we look a little bit closer to the scriptures we&#8217;ll see that God actually DID NOT curse Adam and DID NOT curse Eve as so many people are misled into believing&#8230; </p>
<p>Now before you stone me for heresy let me explain&#8230; </p>
<p>Go back to the Genesis account at the fall of creation and see for yourself &#8230; </p>
<p>He curses the serpent and he curses the ground. </p>
<p>Did he not only hand out 2 curses? </p>
<p>Why then do we create a 3rd and say Adam and Eve were also cursed.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what actually happened.  When God cursed the serpent and the ground it left Adam and Eve to deal with the consequences of choices made.  And we can see that played out throughout the ages.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwayne Forehand</title>
		<link>http://4handsclapping.com/blog/2009/04/headship-and-equality-in-the-garden-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwayne Forehand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 05:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4handsclapping.com/blog/?p=1411#comment-579</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a great question and I&#039;ll be thinking about it for a while I suspect.

My gut instinct is to point to the New Testament description and instructions about marriage though.  That leads to the question though &quot;But that was written at least thousands of years after the Garden though.  Is Pauls description of marriage as relating to Christ and the Church applicable to the word &#039;helper&#039; found in Genesis?&quot;

I think it is, because I don&#039;t believe that the idea of relating marriage to Christ and the Church was an after thought, but that marriage was always meant to be a picture of God and His people and Paul.  I see the Gospel as the unveiling of what was once a mystery, but it was not a mystery that had no appearance before it came (i.e. the priesthood, sacrifices, etc.)  Likewise I think that while the full idea of marriage may have not been revealed in the Garden as it was tied to the yet unrevealed mystery of Christ its reality was still present and thus the word &quot;helper&quot;.

That doesn&#039;t really answer the question though does it! :)  I&#039;ll get back to you later this week, but if anyone else wants to chime in then please do.  Also, what do you take &quot;helper&quot; to mean?  Do you see it as a unique &quot;title&quot; or something else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great question and I&#8217;ll be thinking about it for a while I suspect.</p>
<p>My gut instinct is to point to the New Testament description and instructions about marriage though.  That leads to the question though &#8220;But that was written at least thousands of years after the Garden though.  Is Pauls description of marriage as relating to Christ and the Church applicable to the word &#8216;helper&#8217; found in Genesis?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it is, because I don&#8217;t believe that the idea of relating marriage to Christ and the Church was an after thought, but that marriage was always meant to be a picture of God and His people and Paul.  I see the Gospel as the unveiling of what was once a mystery, but it was not a mystery that had no appearance before it came (i.e. the priesthood, sacrifices, etc.)  Likewise I think that while the full idea of marriage may have not been revealed in the Garden as it was tied to the yet unrevealed mystery of Christ its reality was still present and thus the word &#8220;helper&#8221;.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t really answer the question though does it! :)  I&#8217;ll get back to you later this week, but if anyone else wants to chime in then please do.  Also, what do you take &#8220;helper&#8221; to mean?  Do you see it as a unique &#8220;title&#8221; or something else?</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://4handsclapping.com/blog/2009/04/headship-and-equality-in-the-garden-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4handsclapping.com/blog/?p=1411#comment-578</guid>
		<description>Hi there, 

Interesting read.  I&#039;ll have to come back and read some more.  

I just wanted to ask you one question ... 

How would you biblically define what the scriptures mean when it says that God created woman as a helper? 

Btw, I do recognize the headship of man and also the equality of both man and woman, and their role in relationship with each other. 

But I&#039;d have to say that we undermine God&#039;s intent for woman if we just classify woman as simply the helper, like &quot;mommy&#039;s little helper&quot; in the kitchen.  

I would argue that we as women lend our strengths to man that the two might flow with greater unity to see the purposes of God fulfilled in relationship with each other and with God in our unique God given strengths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there, </p>
<p>Interesting read.  I&#8217;ll have to come back and read some more.  </p>
<p>I just wanted to ask you one question &#8230; </p>
<p>How would you biblically define what the scriptures mean when it says that God created woman as a helper? </p>
<p>Btw, I do recognize the headship of man and also the equality of both man and woman, and their role in relationship with each other. </p>
<p>But I&#8217;d have to say that we undermine God&#8217;s intent for woman if we just classify woman as simply the helper, like &#8220;mommy&#8217;s little helper&#8221; in the kitchen.  </p>
<p>I would argue that we as women lend our strengths to man that the two might flow with greater unity to see the purposes of God fulfilled in relationship with each other and with God in our unique God given strengths.</p>
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		<title>By: Onie Ward</title>
		<link>http://4handsclapping.com/blog/2009/04/headship-and-equality-in-the-garden-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-570</link>
		<dc:creator>Onie Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4handsclapping.com/blog/?p=1411#comment-570</guid>
		<description>&quot;The absurdity of feminism.&quot; No truer words have been spoken. Good post. I must comment on this:

Male Headship in the Garden
#6. God explains his curse for the man as being in part due to him following the womans leading. 

Acutally, imho, it&#039;s not man FOLLOWING the woman&#039;s leading that in and of itself was responsible for the curse; it&#039;s man FORSAKING of his own leadership role and then listening to the woman...that was the real problem.

Adam was WITH Eve when she ate of the fruit and sinned (Gen 3:6).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The absurdity of feminism.&#8221; No truer words have been spoken. Good post. I must comment on this:</p>
<p>Male Headship in the Garden<br />
#6. God explains his curse for the man as being in part due to him following the womans leading. </p>
<p>Acutally, imho, it&#8217;s not man FOLLOWING the woman&#8217;s leading that in and of itself was responsible for the curse; it&#8217;s man FORSAKING of his own leadership role and then listening to the woman&#8230;that was the real problem.</p>
<p>Adam was WITH Eve when she ate of the fruit and sinned (Gen 3:6).</p>
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