At the risk, then, of getting ahead of myself, I want to register my own fuzziness on what Piper is getting at when he extends the discussion into interpersonal relationships between Christian brothers and sisters.

Jon and Dwayne, I have seen firsthand the confusion begotten by this very question. Or to be more precise, the confusion begotten by vague and unsatisfactory answers to this question. Quite a few years ago, at the church we are now leaving (on good terms, I might add), a pastor’s wife made the point at a woman’s group that all wives in the church needed to submit to the pastors over and above their husbands. No extended example or nuance was provided. My wife was not impressed with this.

I could say a lot more, but let me say here that I think we reduce and limit our Christian walk when we devote disproportionate time attempting to decide to whom we must submit. Above all, we must submit to Christ and His Word. When this priority is properly understood, everything else tends to fall into place, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps I’ve created more questions than answers, but that’s a good thing for a discussion thread! Bring it!

I’m not saying that sisters should sit back and wait for their brothers to step up and lead. I’m saying that sisters should be actively encouraging their brothers to lead and affirming them when they do.

I will wait and see what you have to say – I have not read any John Piper writings yet, so I might read things differently than those who are familiar with his writings.

So far, I can only say that I have been deeply influenced and shaped by the sayings and life of a carpenter from 2000 years ago and what he keeps on revealing to me..daily..non-stop..:-)

-ranjeet
Keep tilling. Jesus Christ is sowing.

I guess as a woman who is married I am covered by my husband. So I relate to other men as well as within my church with that protection and leadership in mind. I do feel a freedom to speak up and engage in spiritual matters with my husband at my side. But do not feel the same way when he is not around (i.e. serving on committees without him) Question for me is this response a Biblical response or is it a conditioned cultural response (conservative church culture)?

If a woman is single – who covers her, does she respond differently?

Again – more questions are raised for me. Good to think on these things.

On page 30 of the paper Piper notes that “leading” can take innumerable forms. One example I could imagine would be to take a “leading” role in a conversation with friends where weak doctrine is being espoused. If one of my daughters were to be the first to say “but in Titus doesn’t Paul say…” I would not be disappointed in my son.

I could not in clear conscience tell my boy upon hearing about the conversation “Son having your sister step out first is okay once in a while, but as a man the Bible calls you to be the one to take the lead when conversations get like that. If you don’t feel a greater responsibility then your sisters to take a lead in those conversations then your manhood is incomplete and possibly distorted son.”

Assuming that my son was not ashamed of the gospel or lacking love for his false doctrine espousing friends then I’d see no reason to be concerned. If you know my wife and I you’ll know that my wife often “takes the lead” in regards to drawing out someones heart in a conversation. I do want to be as bold as she is in this regard, but I do not feel compelled to be “bolder” then her.

Now, the idea of men in general providing protection for women in general is compelling to me. This is the pattern presented in Israel’s wars in the OT and for me it fits with the “weaker vessel” instructions of Peter. It’s not that I don’t find any of the this vision compelling, but as you noted I am looking for God’s word to compel me!

I really appreciate your framing of the discussion in the context of a family. Ack, looks like my laptop battery is dying!

Do we not have an expectation that our sons, as brothers, will “benevolently and responsibly lead, provide for, and protect our daughters”? Do we not have an expectation that our daughters, as sisters, will affirm, recieve, and nuture leadership and strength in our son’s”?

Certainly, our kids will not relate to each other the same way that we relate to our spouses, but as part of a spiritual family, don’t those expectations still exist to a certain degree? As well don’t for get the caveat, than the men should be “worthy” in order for the expectation to apply…